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Author Topic: take two on converting a twin cylinder air compressor into a steam engine  (Read 47072 times)
admin
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« Reply #80 on: January 25, 2013, 12:08:51 PM »

I think power is power, whether it be delivered at 100 rpm or 1000 rpm.
Similar to an electric motor, for example rated at 10 hp over a wide variety of speed ranges.

A 200 hp diesel engine and a 200 hp gasoline engine both do the same amount of work, but the diesel will pull you up the hill.
The diesel will be limited in what rpm it can run at, while the gasoline engine can rev up higher, say in a race car application.

Sort of like the 2-stroke vs 4-stroke arguements for dirt bikes.
The 4-stroke motocross bikes can out-torque the 2-strokes out of the corners, but the 2-strokes are lighter, and you can approach the corner faster, cut the corner square, and potentially be leaving the corner before the 4-stroke can get turned fully.

I think today's 4-stroke motocross engines are very similar to the 2-strokes, and much of the weight difference it gone.
My preference is to have the bike as light as possible, but the torque that a 4-stroke produces does make the power much more manageable.  The power my bike produces is so explosive and in such a narrow band that it can be tricky to control.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2013, 12:21:45 PM by PatJ » Logged

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biggkidd
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« Reply #81 on: January 25, 2013, 02:26:15 PM »

Pat, Vt ,
  Thanks for your reply's. I both agree and disagree with you both. First I have several generators six mater of fact. Three of which are currently working the others need repair. Living off grid for five years  has taught me redundancy!!!  Grin All but one are gas   the other is a ten hp diesel rated at 6800 watts continuous  three are ten hp gas rated between4500 and 5500 continuous . I have used them all enough to know there is a lot of difference in what they are capable of. The ten horse diesel will carry nearly double the load as the 10 horse gas ones will. While burning only slightly more fuel. None of them are high end all more low end two are troybuilt10 hp gas one unknown10 hp gas and a leading brand diesel  its cheep (Chinese junk)  (175 hrs and making metal) waiting for repair. They are all 3600 rpm units. As was the other diesel I had .
 What got me thinking and wonderful down this road was looking through my scrap pile . I ran across an old piece of pipe I think would make a nice cylinder  about 6.125" D maybe18" long. Quarter in wall. I was dreaming of building a 6X6  that would make a little power I believe!
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fredrosse
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« Reply #82 on: January 25, 2013, 03:32:39 PM »

“I was thinking more like 11 hp with a steam engine due to the much higher torque per hp that steam produces. Guess I was wrong maybe others will chime in.”

In fact there is no difference, a horsepower is a horsepower, be it steam, or an IC engine, or a horse!   

Horsepower is the rate of doing work, and defined as 550 ft-pounds of work output per second, or 33,000 ft-pounds of work output per minute.  Work is defined as a force applied through a distance.

This can be with a high speed engine with low torque, or a low speed engine with high torque, either way the power output is defined the same.

The relevant parameters defining engine horsepower is shaft torque (T), and rotational speed (RPM). The torque here is the average torque produced by the engine, not the maximum torque for design of the connecting rod and bearings, etc., which is often several times greater than the average torque.

If the torque produced by applying a force to a lever (attached to the shaft), say an applied tangential force of 1 pound, with a 1 foot long lever arm, the torque is one pound-foot.  However the work done in one revolution of the shaft is actually a movement of 6.28 feet, (2 x Pi x Radius), so in one revolution this condition produces 6.28 ft-pounds work.   The equation relating engine torque and RPM then is:

HP  =  RPM * Torque (pound-ft) * ( 2 Pi ) / 3,3000
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biggkidd
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« Reply #83 on: January 31, 2013, 11:10:10 PM »

Well got back to work on the eng today. Got it all togeather and ran it. Ate the valve again! Thought trash was causing it but now think its a lube issue. Since i know its not trash as i put a screen in line as a filter. So next  step is to pressurize the oiler i guess.

Larry
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biggkidd
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« Reply #84 on: February 19, 2013, 04:51:11 PM »

Hi WO,
 I  had thought the valve was getting trash in it and grooving the face and seat. But that wasn't the case because i put a screen / filter in line and it happened again. So my conclusion is a lac of lubrication. So that's next on the list for this engine. No big hurry though since the boiler is to small. So Ive started on a new one, a 20 hp horizontal fire tube gasafier design. The old boiler makes an outstanding hot water heater though. LOL  Wink
 I have been busy researching and gathering up parts. I bought the main boiler tube from a place that makes commercial boilers as scrap as a drop 24" D  x 56" L  x .308 Wall for $120. From what they told me the max allowable working pressure is 267 Psi. My pressure relief valve got here today 150 psi that cost more than the main tube.   Shocked
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biggkidd
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« Reply #85 on: March 12, 2013, 09:08:58 PM »

Just wanted to let you guys know. Did finally get this going with the D slide valve using a homemade oiler it now runs with out trashing the valve. Grin  But I'm still not satisfied with it. Its just not making enough power. It has been intresting to play with though. I haven't given up on it yet but am thinking about going back to the original valve i had it had a lot less drag. Its awful hard to tell what to do as my boiler just wont keep up with demand. Speaking of which my fire brick should be by next weekend. Didn't get any pics or video, after watching all of ya'lls builds my stuff is so crude its embarrassing. Cry

Larry
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admin
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TN


« Reply #86 on: March 13, 2013, 12:42:53 AM »

I visited the guy who has  the Roper replica steam bike, and he has added a mechanical oiler which consists of a small pump operated off the crankshaft, and a drip-type oiler, I guess with a check valve.

He says it works much better than the displacement lubricator.

I am thinking that for any serious engine I try to make, I will use a mechanical oiler.

Getting the boiler heating surface size coordinated with the engine usage can be a trick.
I wish I knew more about that so as to guide you a bit.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 12:44:01 AM by PatJ » Logged

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biggkidd
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Posts: 148


« Reply #87 on: March 13, 2013, 06:44:11 AM »

I visited the guy who has  the Roper replica steam bike, and he has added a mechanical oiler which consists of a small pump operated off the crankshaft, and a drip-type oiler, I guess with a check valve.

He says it works much better than the displacement lubricator.

I am thinking that for any serious engine I try to make, I will use a mechanical oiler.

Getting the boiler heating surface size coordinated with the engine usage can be a trick.
I wish I knew more about that so as to guide you a bit.

Hey Pat,[color=][/color]

   I'm using a simple drip oiler myself, it seems to work just fine. It is nothing more than a small resavore and valve with equalized steam pressure on both sides. As to boiler sizing not to worry the boiler I am gathering  parts for will be large enough to carry a 10 - 15 hp engine. I do plan to document and take , post lots of pics from the ground up. Hopefully this will help any others who plan a boiler and if you guys see any problems along the way you will point them out so corrections can be made during the build. Usually I don't this much trouble  building things but thats also using ready made parts. I had never tried to machine and make my own parts before. Its a whole new ball game for me.
 
  I can't thank you and the rest of the folks here enough for all of the help you have given me. I know I wouldn't have gotten this far without it.
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